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S2E6: Women and Worth; through the lens of yesterday,

what can we make of tomorrow?

S2E6: Women and Worth; through the lens of yesterday,

what can we make of tomorrow?


Discussing all realms of the conversation around women and worth, throughout history, today, and what this fight may look like tomorrow. We are bringing together unique and powerful voices from across the spectrum of industries, including leading voice Claire Wasserman of Ladies Get Paid, Jamela Acheampong of Kahmune, Kiara McClendon of AForEffort, LLC, and our very own LaQuita Ann Cleare, of Clear Communication Academy.

Download the episode's key takeaways here.

This episode was produced by Global Thinking Foundation USA and Hangar Studios.

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Mary: (00:44)
Happy day money people, and welcome back to Your World, Your Money. This week, we have a very, very special episode full to the brim with powerhouse women. The next hour, you will be hearing some incredible women changing this little game called life and talk about women and worth. Our ladies will not be shying away from the truths and power behind this conversation on women and worth diving into the racial, ethnic, political, communal social, and of course, financial aspects of understanding worth as a woman historically, today, and tomorrow. You'll be hearing from Claire Wasserman, the founder and CEO of Ladies Get Paid, Jamela Acheampong, founder and CEO of Kahmune, and Kiara McClendon, founder and CEO of AForEffort, LLC. And this week I'm a wide-eyed audience member, just like the whole lot of you. I'm going to be sitting h ere excited to take in some of these incredible conversations and seeing, and hearing all sides of something that is inherent to my existence, hi, as a woman and my worth. So I'm going to pass this over to our host LaQuita Ann, a powerhouse female entrepreneur herself, who will be holding today's conversation with Claire, Jamela, and Kiara.

Ann: (02:08)
So I am excited to get started and to be here. I would love to just start by asking all of you ladies, just to give us a short introduction about yourselves.

Jamela: (02:20)
Hi everyone. My name is Jamela Acheampong. I'm the founder and CEO of Kahmune, and we are a luxury marketplace for skin tone, footwear and fashion, on a journey to redefine the term "nude". And we are just opening up the conversation of what representation that fashion and beauty mean for various skin tones.

Claire: (02:41)
Hi, I'm Claire Wasserman and I am the founder and author of Ladies Get Paid. We are a book, an organization, and a global community that helps women advance financially, professionally, and power. I want women to have power in all of the ways that they define it. Uh, we got to close that wage gap and it begins with us and it begins with helping each other. So thank you to all the thousands of women who are part of Ladies Get Paid. I would not be here without them. And thank you for having me on this podcast.

Kiara: (03:10)
I'm Kiara McClendon. I am the CEO and founder of AForEffort, LLC, as well as Exceptional Athlete, LLC. Both our businesses committed to financial literacy education, one for children, teens, and their families and the other for athletes. So I work primarily with collegiate athletes, pre-collegiate athletes and then professional athletes. So I'm here today just to add value to the conversation as a black woman, helping other people advance, helping other women advance and more specifically making sure that we know what to do with our money and how to make more money with it.

Ann (03:44)
I am changing the way the world communicates one speaker at a time. My name is LaQuita Ann, and I'm the CEO of clear communication Academy working with business leaders and public figures in over 60 countries on public speaking, media training and storytelling. And I am so excited to be here. Today is of course, just us sort of riffing off of each other and getting into this conversation about women and worth, which I think is hugely important. But I want to kind of start at the beginning because I think it's important to get a historical perspective when we think about women and worth, because in some ways people are like, yes, you've come a long way. And then in other ways we are like, okay girl, not yet, right? Like we still have further to go. So I just wanted to start there. And I would just love to get your perspective on this Claire, when we think about just the historical trajectory of women and worth, and just kind of get your thoughts about this.

Claire: (04:45)
So interesting, because part of me, I mean, I'm so impatient, right? The fact that women couldn't even get credit cards until 1974, my mother was the third class of women in college. Aren't we over it? Well, hold on now, that's not very long ago. Also, I've constantly trying to navigate wanting things to move faster, but knowing that it can sometimes take time and guess what history is not linear. You know, we take one step forward, a few steps back. I think we're all feeling that right now, a little bit, especially with the pandemic, but I am incredibly proud to see we have more women than ever in the C-suite in politics. So that's me trying to hang onto the good news, but you know, it's been, it's been far too long. The gaps are too big, especially when it comes to the wage gap. I'm so tired of it.

Ann (05:31)
Yeah. I think you mentioned a really good point. So for me, there's moment where I'm so excited until I suddenly have to lead a class on communication and it's all men. And then I'm like, wait a minute. Like this is all CEOs. And literally, sometimes I have classes of zero women. So I am like, we've come far, but I'm like, I want to be in a sprint, but right. Guess we're, it's a marathon. It's not a sprint. So I think those are good points.

Claire: (06:02)
I joke that we're trying to put ourselves out of business here, but I don't think it's going to happen.

Kiara: (06:07)
I think that women have come a long way, but we still have a long way to go. And I think that people have to understand we're powerful just in and of ourselves. And we have to, wealth has always been a conversation that's dominated by a male's perspective or the idea that only men can amass like large amounts of wealth. Right. And I feel like we really have to work hard. As many of us are on this podcast to just get rid of that idea altogether. I'd love to see women bossing up, making sure that they're taking care of whatever their home life looks like, whatever their financial life or excuse me, their professional life looks like. And then also being wealthy in their own rights. So for me, the more that we can continue to create more opportunities for women to build wealth, to share wealth and to break those stigmas, as it relates to men being the only wealthy individuals or wealth being a male dominated conversation, I'm all for it. I'm gonna pull up a chair and be actively involved in that conversation.

Ann: (07:09)
Yeah, definitely. And I think when we think about worth, historically, it's interesting because I don't think if we go back like 30 years, 40 years, 50 years, women's worth wasn't necessarily in finance or in building businesses. Right. We are the person who builds our family. So that's what your worth is, right. That's where people see you as being worthy, right. You were never considered necessarily like being a business woman or like, wow, you are really leading future generations. So I think it's interesting. And in that way, I do think we've come quite far in moving along. What about you Jamela? Any thoughts that you have just historically to kind of kick off the conversation?

Jamela: (07:54)
Yeah. I think a lot of my input of course, will come from the lens of, you know, being an entrepreneur and starting a business and trying to find ways to scale and find capital. And I think, you know, within not only the financial, but kind of the fundraising and also the startup and tech space, it's extremely male dominated. So I think the conversation about women and worth is pertinent. Even here. If you look at the number of women that are able to raise capital compared to men, it's despicable. And then if you also kind of look at what the brands and the businesses we put value on, and the ones that we kind of uplift and applaud, I feel like less worth is put on the only female founders, but kind of funding for women's needs. And I think that's a conversation that needs to be had and a lot definitely needs to change within that realm as well.

Ann: (08:47)
One of the things that I think is always interesting is even just getting a perspective culturally, around wealth and thinking about wealth, worth of women, I would love to hear either just maybe even Kiara, can you chime in about that just even culturally as a woman, as a black woman, your thoughts maybe on worth in the community.

Kiara: (09:12)
Sure. So I think, um, well, I don't think I know, I know black women are the epicenter of the black community. Though, a lot of times we talk about the household or the family unit as a, you know, the man is the, or the male is the head of the household. I feel like the black woman truly is the head of the household or maybe the neck that guides the head, right? Like we spend a lot of time being the person that is raising children, being the person that is making sure that the household is running smoothly, but we're also working. We're also building, we're also shaping the next generation of, of people that are coming up. So I think the worth that black women have is invaluable. I, even though I talked just now about monetary wealth and amassing a certain amount of money, I think black women in and of ourselves are, there is no number that you can put on how, you know, how much we're worth with regards to our culture and our family and the world in general. I think every culture has a tie back to black women, whether it's American culture, European culture, any other culture that you know, South American culture, any culture goes back to the strength. And, and just the, I don't know. I like the love that I have for black women is, is as a black woman is exponential. So I just, I want us to really understand that.

Ann: (10:32)
I'm like jumping out of my skin over here, because you are saying so much, you're, you're spitting so much truth. Just it just about this is like a whole nother conversation. We could probably go on for like four or five hours, but we won't, but I'm also interested in just understanding because all of us have very, very different experiences just in terms of women and worth and how we were raised, the community, all of that. So I would love to get just some personal perspective. So Claire, how, how was that for you even just growing up and how you were raised and how you came to know more about women and worth or anything like that that you would love to share with us?

Claire: (11:16)
Yeah. I was raised to believe that workplaces and meritocracy, which is totally privileged and sort of lovely. And then I wasn't given a heads up about sexism, but when I finally realized, Oh my God, this is unfair. And it's not just the statistics. Okay. It is also about the every day little experiences, right? They're called microaggressions that make us feel less than that, that counts. That is not something to necessarily say, well, nevermind, that didn't happen. Or, oh my gosh, I think it's my fault. Right? There's a lot of internalization that women tend to put on ourselves when something feels wrong, discriminatory. And it, you know, it was one of those experiences that made me want to start Ladies Get Paid. And so I was at an advertising festival and I walked into an event and the first party, lot of men and the older guy comes up to me, smiles, sticks out his hand and he says, well, hi, whose wife are you? Uh, nobody's wife. I was there on business. And here's the thing that full week at the advertising festival, there were so many conversations that I had where I felt uncomfortable, where I was either being objectified or quite frankly, ignored where men would only talk to men, not even shake my hand. And at the end of all of this, I, you know, I wrote an essay of just, not just what happened, but trying to process it when somebody objectified me, did I smile too much? Right. Again, the internalization. And I shared that essay with some girlfriends who were like, me too. All of my career, I have been navigating uncomfortable or sometimes awkward gender power dynamics. Think about that energy. And sometimes it was just with myself, right. The perfectionism. So, you know, it just got to a place where I was like enough, enough spending energy, trying to please others, trying to protect myself from objectification. Let's talk about this stuff because there is shame that can come with these things. And it turns out I'm not the only one who's mad. So I guess that's the good news. But as long as we can channel that somewhere and help each other, you know, as I said, that Ladies Get Paid, we're trying to put ourselves out of business with our work, but there's more to be done.

Ann: (13:27)
But I think that's amazing. And one of the things you actually made me think about when you said, how you were raised is I, so I remember my grandmother at five would tell me like, yeah, you can do whatever you want to do. So I was not aware that being a woman or being black, had anything to do with anything, right. Like until literally I stepped out in the world, like my grandma's said, I can do anything I want to do. And people are like, huh, you are a woman and you're black. Like where, who do you think you are? Right. And I do think it's in that moment that something sort of like a light bulb clicks on and you're like, wait a minute. How do we also help others? And also, and sometimes for us, it's, it's either you're frustrated or sometimes you do. You're, you're vulnerable, frustrated all of these mix of emotions. So I really appreciate you sort of sharing just that beginning as well. And then that moment where you're like, okay, I need to start this. Right. Because Ladies Get Paid is pretty awesome. So hopefully you guys will all look that up. If you don't know what it is already. Jameela, what about, you would love to get some of your voice in the conversation because you are doing really amazing things as well. So just your experience or how, how you were brought up?

Jamela: (14:40)
Yeah, funnily enough, I was raised in a very traditional and I say that word to me, an old school traditional environment. My dad went to work, my stepmom stayed home and kind of took care of the house and took care of the kids. And so I feel like now that I am of age or a woman myself, you know, and I'm in that spot where I am looking to start my own family and looking to find a partner, conversations that have been coming up lately have really been irking me if you will, because I can remember being told by some family that I have to be careful that starting a business and having a successful one and being successful, I'm going to be intimidating men. And I also will be limiting the pool of men, which are options for me. And I think that's a very important narrative to dissect and to discuss and not shy away from because why is it that there are so many iterations of worth than what we're taught as women, but why is it that my value and what I see as worthy, having a career, having a business that I'm very proud of, like, why should that stop or inhibit my ability to then have another element of life that I'm proud of, which is a family and a partner. So I think it's a very interesting conversation and balance, so to speak, because a lot of times our worth is measured against males, which is ridiculous.

Ann: (16:12)
Yeah. That's actually huge. I don't know if you ladies have heard this one before, but I've heard a lot of that just about limiting your possibilities in finding partners. And a lot of people are telling you essentially, as a woman, it's almost like you have to dumb yourself down in order to be more attractive. And in order to gain a partner, this is like, now I'm amazed that in 2021, this is something that I'm hearing so so much. And I'm, and I'm even hearing men on podcasts or different things talking about, okay, ladies, if you want to find a partner, you need to do X, Y, Z. And it's like, wait, what? Like, we're still having this conversation. So I think that's a big one. It leads me to also thinking about finance, right? And as we bridge into thinking about financial worth, right? So when we think about financial worth and this current world, what are your thoughts behind that? Getting into this, defining our worth financially, and how, how does that play into this whole conversation? That's bigger about women and worth?

Claire: (17:15)
I mean, it always begins with how we're socialized, because I could say, well, start saving or investing, but you're not going to do it, if you don't believe that you can take a risk, which we're brought up to be very low risk. Okay. You won't do it if you have a scarcity mindset. So there's a lot of just, it's not greedy to want money. Okay. Stir by theirselves that: ask questions if you don't know the answer. You're not stupid. Okay. There's no stupid question. We're not taught this. If you feel intimidated, when you think of the stock market, because there's, you know, bros and vests, you're not wrong. There are bros and vast. Okay. So first we just have to say, ah, I am worthy. I can do this. Anyone can learn it. And then it's about finding communities like ours, because again, we're not taught this stuff. So I just, you know, even beginning the conversation is normalizing. The conversation is, is a huge step to take.

Ann: (18:13)
Claire. Do you think that we get into that mindset because some people, when you weren't taught that, or you were specifically taught that you go get yourself a husband, that's how you're going to be okay in life or other sort of limiting beliefs. How can women make that mindset shift?

Claire: (18:31)
Yeah, I would say, I mean, at the end of the day, you need your independence because you will not be able to walk away from a relationship or a job. If you do not have that financial safety net, right? Like the strongest negotiators are the ones who are able and willing to walk away. So that's first thing first, the next thing is there are people out there and by people, I mean, men, white men, they're getting rich. You are not, when somebody negotiates, they're subsidizing, if there's a contract, you can negotiate it. Okay. If there's an investment to be made, compound interest, AKA free money, if you do not go and get that somebody else will, why do you not want to be that person? So that's, you know, that's huge. And at the very end of the day, I mean, think about your kids. If you're going to have them, you know, think about generational wealth, which women, and particularly women of color, families of color do not have. So at the very least, if you won't advocate for yourself, you know, advocate on behalf of everybody else.

Ann: (19:26)
Okay. Claire, I officially love you. You brought up something about wealth. Like let's talk about, I, I literally saw a graph of like the generational wealth in the black community and then the white community. It will literally bring you to tears.

Claire: (19:43)
Yes. Yes it will.

Jameela, do you have any comments about, even, just as we're thinking, just to build on what Claire said, when we start thinking about generational wealth and financial worth, this is a even bigger topic.

Jamela: (19:58)
Yeah. I think also generational wealth accommoadation is male, right? What did your father or your grandfather pass on to you? Because their business was successful and they're then able to allocate those funds or pass out that stuff onto their son and then so on and so on. And so on. I feel like a lot of women don't see ourselves in that light. We don't see ourselves as the ones that are going to create these empires or these entities, or like Claire said, you know, portfolios, investment portfolios that are putting you in such a position that, you know, you don't have to worry. You don't have to rely on other people. You do have stuff to pass on to somebody else. And I think that, you know, the conversation that really revolves around that is something that definitely needs to be had because when I think the word inheritance and even growing up, I always thought male, like men, like you're not getting anything from your mom. Your mom might be the one that stayed at home and took care of the family. But you know, in this time of age, like that's something that we really have the power to change. So Claire, I love everything you just said, like I'm over here, nodding and clapping and snapping.

Claire: (21:10)
Because it's the accumulation of it. It's again. And for anybody who's feeling like, again, I don't have any money. It just takes, it takes so little because over time that will make you money. So it's not about getting money gambling it, I mean, again, if you want to do options trading, best of luck to you. So just remember everything's long-term generational wealth is just that generations investing compound interest over time. So again, for those of you who are feeling like you don't even have a cent to spend, it doesn't take that much to make money.

Ann: (21:43)
Yeah. I love that you gave things that are also kind of concrete. If we think about this conversation around just financial worth and, and ladies being able to level up, I would love to just get like one quick thing from each of you on how you begin that, right? Like how you begin leveling up in terms of like financial worth and getting into this conversation, what would be your one thing, Claire?

Claire: (22:07)
Um, well, it begins with your paycheck. I mean, it just does. I mean, this is why our whole company began on the premise of helping women negotiate. It also depends on the kind of job you have too. Often. Women are in positions where they are supporting others or who have roles that it's not quite clear how they bring in money for the company I'm talking HR and admin and marketing, right. That makes it harder for you to negotiate. So I would love us all to keep an eye on industries and rules and departments. Okay. Like sales that are male dominated, who clearly bring in money for the company, therefore have an easier case to make. We need to be getting into those fields. Okay. That's number one. And then number two is what are you going to do with that paycheck after the fact? So I don't mean to simplify it too much, but those are the two straightforward things that you could do tomorrow is go in and have a conversation with your boss about your growth at the company, how you can position yourself for more. And that includes money. And then go open up a mutual fund. I, you know, go, go get a financial advisor. I have to tell you that is the most important thing you can do with your paycheck is to make sure that you're investing into the stock market.

Kiara: (23:12)
I love some of the comments that were made with regards to the creation of generat,ional wealth. So what I do primarily is focused on actually education. So my first or starting point would be to educate yourself and make sure that you are learning the basics. Do you understand what money actually is? Do you understand ways in which you can grow the money that you currently have outside of just asking for a raise? Are you interested in learning how to invest? If so, where do you start? Obviously Claire mentioned starting with a financial advisor, even taking matters into your own hands and that education process by doing research into companies that you find to be interesting, companies that you know, you'd want to invest in and simulating the process before you even open an account, there are a number of stock simulators, as well as option simulators that you can use to actually learn how to do it first, before you jump head first into something that you really have no idea of. And then for me beyond just women, it's educating the household, educating your children. So I have two coloring books that educate children on the basics of financial literacy. So making sure that as mom is learning, the children are learning as well. And it becomes a family financial literacy process becoming educated together because if we're really talking about generational wealth, right, the generation, the next generation would be your children. So if you can learn and you can teach them or you all can learn together, then you're kind of killing two birds with one stone, for lack of a better term.

Ann: (24:42)
Yeah. Definitely. I love that. And I think it is important to make sure that the conversation goes beyond us, right? Because we can be doing whatever we want all day long as ladies. But if we're not including our children, if we're also not including men into the conversation ever, right, then we, we suddenly stay stuck. I feel like.

Jamela: (25:01)
I would say, I think it just goes down to the basics, right? I think every woman should really equip herself with just basic understanding of finances. So knowing, you know, checking versus savings, if you're going to go with a financial advisor, knowing how to make the move with that. And I'd even say go, as far as the stock market in itself, just knowing the basics of buying and selling. Uh, one thing I will say is my dad has always been a forbid investor and that's something that, you know, I didn't have a choice in terms of exposure to, and you know, at this point in my life, I'm just so grateful because like, I can talk about stocks with my girl friends, and everyone's kind of like what you do that? Like, huh? And then if I talk about like, the guys they are like, yeah, like I made X amount of money this week, bro. Like, why are we doing this ladies? We need to get involved. So just equip yourself with the very basics, even if it's just investing in a few shares of your favorite brand. Like if you look at the statistics of spending within households, women control spending, so we know what's up, we know what's going on. Even like trends in the market, like we know what's popular, we know what's hot. So even if you're doing like passion investing, just really being smart about passive income, because why not?

Ann: (26:30)
Yeah, definitely. And I think it's good that we also share right. That we have a network. And that's one of the things that I love about what you're talking about Claire, and what you do with ladies get paid is because nobody's doing things right. Like we need to share. And so I think it's great as women when we're also sharing our resources or letting our friends or people in our circle know when you hear about something or something new that you know about investing or a new app or all of these different communities, I think helps bring us together. And we all sort of rise together. This idea that we're just rising alone, I think is not necessarily a healthy one. And it also makes me think, as we start thinking about investing and saving money and all of these things, I think we do need to mention just in general, women in the workforce. But when we think about women in the workforce and kind of what's happening now and there's work from home and even just like the whole entire pandemic, what are your thoughts around right now? What's happening. If we think about current current day in present day with women in the workforce, anyone want to chime in on that?

Claire: (27:41)
Yeah. I'll, I'll start with the positive because it's so hard to be positive right now. What is happening? See the fact that 140,000 women left the workforce in December alone. Right? All, you know, the she session is what people are calling it. There were problems to begin with that people swept under the rug. Now here's the positive. They can no longer deny it. They can no longer deny it. Right? We're the default caretakers. Look how badly we are suffering from being the ones to educate our children at home. Okay. That we are stepping back from working full-time simply because again, we are the default caretakers. We always were. We always work. So if this is not a time to show people how badly paid family leave, universal childcare and minimum wage is needed. I don't know what would have been that wake up call. So we're suffering today, but you know, sometimes things need to hit a breaking point before you can make positive change. So that's my attempt at being positive.

Ann: (28:43)
It just brings up so much to me too, because I think about this pandemic and we just cannot deny that women have had such a, I don't want to say even a raw deal because that's not super positive, but I just, what I see, even just in my circle with women who had great jobs and then suddenly they were the ones forced to take care of the kids and the men kept on going right, working during the pandemic. But suddenly daycare is closed or schools are closed. And then the woman is like, Oh, okay, now it's me. Right. So it, you just made me think about that when you said I'm going to try to stay positive, but it's so hard because I just started thinking about work and this perspective of work during the pandemic for many women who yes, some were laid off and then some just simply weren't, they were not laid off, but they were forced to then their role was as the mother. Right. And so they couldn't necessarily think about that or, or juggle. Kiara, any thoughts that you have now on what's happening for women in the workforce?

Kiara: (29:42)
So I do think that the pandemic has turned everything upside down. That's probably a very oversimplified way of staying just the stability that some people may have felt that they had prior to the pandemic that doesn't exist anymore. Right. But I also think it makes us focus on the fact that the workforce has never been stable. Most people that are working, for example, in higher education or any form of education you're at will. So at any point in time, your employer can get rid of you whenever he, she, they wants to. So I think the pandemic, especially for me and people in my circle has been a reassertion of the idea that you have to have multiple streams of income. You cannot just have one stream of income because if you do and you lose your job, it affects you. It affects your family, it affects your children. And so on. So ironically enough, in my circle, we talked way more about investing than ever. I'm the person that people would always go to, to ask questions about just financial literacy and getting started. But now I see people saying, you know, I did set aside or I did meet my monthly savings goal, or I am doing these things because I can't afford not to, I'm excited to see more women get involved in this creation of wealth beyond just their nine to five and beyond just the workforce, because that's really the key to you being financially successful. You have to have more than one stream of income.

Ann: (31:08)
You also said something that I would love to just get more into when you spoke about future generations. I think it's really important for us to start moving into how we sort of continue to move forward and thinking about our children, even thinking about our brothers and sisters and everyone, how do we continue to move forward? And how do we educate our children? This is one of the things that you brought up earlier that I just really wanted to start touching upon.

Kiara: (31:39)
Well, before you can even have the conversation, you have to be comfortable having the conversation, because I know more specifically in black households, when we talk about money more often than not, when I was growing up, my parents or my grandparents were kind of like, that's grown folks business, like we're not talking to you about this. You know what I'm saying? Don't worry about a mortgage. Don't worry about you worry about being a kid, right? And I think there are ways to still have someone be a child, but still say, Hey, this is what a $5 bill actually is. Or this is what a $5 bill gets you in the supermarket. I mentioned, I have AForEffort, LLC, which is a business committed to financial literacy for children, teens, and families. So when I go into classrooms or I have conversations with parents as a guest speaker, I tell them, take your everyday experiences and turn that into a learning process. If you have to take your kids to the supermarket there for the books that I've created, there there's paper, money in the back. So cut out the paper money and give them their own envelope full of money and say, hey, as mom's shopping, or as dad shopping, you get your little items and you put them in the cart, but you have to read the prices and tell me how much it is. Or if the child's too young to read the prices, the parent can do it for them. Hey, this is $5. So I need a bill that has a five on it. Show me, you know, and that one, that keeps them busy in a supermarket, which I know for many moms is a point of contention, making sure that your kids are occupied, but then two, it's engrossed in the process of your everyday life. Or if you're home put posters post-it notes, excuse me, around your house and say, Hey, this costs $5. If you want to play the game, you've got to give me a $5 bill. This cost $10. If you want ice cream, I need a $10 bill. It's all about making it real for your kids. It doesn't have to be some separate conversation or secret, you know, conversation that you have when they hit a certain age, begin early, have the conversation often and make it fun. I think they remember more of the more fun that you make it.

Ann: (33:39)
Yeah, these are all good points. I hope you were taking notes folks, because I thought about just even, even as a kid, going to the grocery store with my parents and having no concept of like things I was throwing into the cart, right. How much they cost. And I think it would have been amazing if I would've even had that perspective of my mom being like, okay, did you realize that box of cereal was $6 you just threw into the cart. Right? And so I think this is an important part of learning. Definitely. Claire, any thoughts that you have on how, how we sort of help these future generations and how that looks?

Claire: (34:14)
Everything that was just said, I'm I need to go find this. I mean, I don't have kids, but I want to this coloring book for myself, that's brilliant. And when things are taboo, that's when we have problems, right. Again, I mentioned shame in the beginning thinking we're the only one that only happens when you don't speak up. And so just having the conversation again, this is all very complicated and overwhelming, but it turns out it's pretty straightforward. What the solution is, Hey, what do you think about money? And by the way, white men out there, if you say you want to be allies, the best thing you can do right now is tell a woman how much money you make. If you negotiated, how you did it, if you're investing, how you did it, that again, simple, straightforward having the conversation is so, so crucial.

Ann: (34:59)
Okay. This was one of the topics that I wanted to bring up. And you just beautifully segwayed into it. Cause I did want to get one tip from everyone about how we make men allies. Because I think sometimes people think it's like, well, no you're against us or you're how do we bring them also into the conversation and make them allies?

Speaker 3: (35:17)
We have a phrase in Ghana. My family is from Ghana. That is, it's not by force. So I think it has to be a want, like we need to get men on board. We need them to get them to understand these differences. We need to get them to understand it, the need for equity along these lines. And we need to get them to lock, to root for us and want to push us up. I think it's easy as women to understand why we need to bring other women to the table. And when one of us wins, we all win. But I think just clear channels of communication and just being really open and candid about these issues that we face and why they are significant.

Kiara: (35:59)
Right. I think that they have to have similar to what Jamela was saying and understanding of the why, like, why is it that women even need male allies, right? Like, do you understand the significance of how much women are underpaid in comparison to men? Do you really know what the wage gap actually is? Like how much it actually is? And if you are aware of that, then to me, if you're someone that cares about the person who is coming to you and asking for support, it should be a no brainer. This woman is being paid cents on the dollar in comparison to me. And so if I'm in a position to elevate her, to champion her, to speak on her behalf, let me do that. If I'm not directly involved in the negotiation process or the ability to pay her more money, let me still be an advocate for this not being the norm anymore. We have to get rid of that. Being the norm where men are just automatically paid more than women and the men can end that. Women, we can fight and scream and kick and say all of these things, but men have to say, hey, this is a problem for us too. And we want to end this issue. Now, are they going to do that? I don't know,

Claire: (37:14)
Stay tuned for the next episode.

Ann: (37:21)
So true. Claire. It's like, stay tuned. We'll update you. I feel like this is like the sequal, right? The other thing that, that I would love to understand is as we just think about worth in the future, what is our, like if you had to sum up your hope for women in terms of financial worth for the future, what would be that like just one sentence. This is what I would love to see in the future. Right?

Claire: (37:49)
I, we can value ourselves as much as we try, but until it is recognized, there's only so much we can do. I said this before it comes down to the, to the social safety net. It's not, we're not going to make the systemic change, no matter how much we might advocate for a promotion or a raise, that's only improving our own lives. So how do we help all women, especially women who are in hourly positions and service industries. That's the biggest contributor to the wage gap. Those are the women who lost their job during the pandemic. The only way we're going to be able to take care of those women is when we pass better, more progressive laws. And that also means getting more women and women of color into positions of leadership, because when they are there inherently, that improves it for everybody, even for businesses, when there's diversity in leadership, in a business, the bottom line has improved. So yeah, it benefits us, but it benefits men. It benefits everybody. So universal childcare paid family, leave minimum wage, please, please add your voice to that. That is what will make the real change that we all need.

Ann: (38:53)
I love it. And, and women and black women in leadership and not just as a chief diversity officer folks. Like right? We can be other positions besides chief diversity. So I love that.

Claire: (39:05)
Thank you for saying that. Too often there I'm on panels. And the one black woman is like, she's the DEI person. And it's like, we get it. Like I want the CEO here. Where's the CEO. And if you can't find one you're not looking hard enough.

Ann: (39:20)
Claire just said it all folks. Okay. Kiarra, what, what do you think, what would be your, your one sort of line for the future?

Kiara: (39:31)
I just want women to be at peace and I understand that being financially stable or, you know, financially well off allows for a different level of peace of mind. I think as women, we stress way too much, way more than maybe we, we should, we should have to, because of all the responsibilities that we have from one day to the next, and we're literally carrying this world, right? Like I don't care if that sounds anti-men, I'm not anti-men, but I think women are the glue again that holds the world together. So if we can create opportunities for women to truly be able to build wealth for themselves and experience peace or freedom to do what they please to live life, the way that they would like to, I would love to see that. Do I think that that's possible for every single woman? I don't know that it's going to be some grand gesture for every woman or everyone's going to be a multi-millionaire. But I do think in everyday circumstances, you can experience peace by some of the things that we talked about in the episode today, by creating those streams of income, by advocating for a raise, by, you know, doing things that really set yourself up to be successful in the future. So I really want to see more women happy and at peace.

Jamela: (40:45)
I like, mine's pretty simple. I just think if we experience a world in which when you request to see, oh, when you discuss the fund manager, when you're talking about a founder and investor, there's just no shock or surprise when it's a woman. I think these internalized notions that we all kind of grow up on where certain roles and responsibilities, certain income levels are attributed to men, just, you know, finally getting into a point where when you hear you see that it's a woman it's like, cool, okay, next. It's not even a thing.

Ann (41:27)
Awesome. Yeah, definitely. And as qe think about moving forward with this, how do we, when we think about Gen Z and alpha gen, and there's probably so many others that of course are coming after that, how do we motivate and inspire them, right? How do we push them forward and get them really involved in this conversation?

Claire: (41:49)
Leading by example, leading by example, and expressing your enthusiasm again, despite how overwhelming and depressing all this can be. I mean, clearly all of us on this podcast right now, we're very jazzed about what we do. And we are hopeful for the future. That's inspirational for somebody to watch and you know, you sort of can't be what you can't see. So we are, we are that for them. I actually think they're doing an even better job sometimes than we are, because I think they realize how bad it is. Whereas many of us as millennials, we're like, oh, this seems fair. And then nine 11 happens, 2009 happens. COVID happens. And now here we are. Be what you want to see. They will follow.

Ann: (42:25)
Yeah, that's true. And I will say in some ways they are doing better, better than us in a lot of topics. We're just like, I didn't realize like sexism, racism, really what, all of these different things. And they're like, hello? Like, are you not watching? What about you, Kiara?

Kiara: (42:41)
I just want to encourage them to continue to challenge the status quo. Like they're the generation that I think is going to change everything because they're not afraid to speak up and speak out and say, this doesn't make sense. I don't like this. Women get paid less than men. Yeah. Okay. Whatever, not in my company. Like I think that they're going to be the ones to really affect that change. So as much as we can do to champion them and truly be like allies to them, I think we'll see a change with gen Z and the generations that follow. So I just want to see them keep going, keep pushing. I love it.

Jamela: (43:15)
Yeah. And I think there's absolutely nothing wrong with staying at home or not wanting to work or whatever agreement you have with your partner where you are not the breadwinner. But also personally, I feel like there is just something undeniable about being able to get your own and create your own success and just seeing the results from all of your hard work and all the passion you put into something. So I would just say like, do not be afraid to chase that check, get your money, ladies. There is nothing wrong with that. Please mimic these men. We need it.

Ann: (43:50)
Okay. I would love if you can take us out with just one action item. If you think of one action item or mindset shift that people can do like today or in the next week, what would that one action item be? Claire.

Claire: (44:05)
Tell yourself you're doing a good job. That life is hard, but break it down. Like in this moment, close your eyes. Be grateful for the breath coming out of your body. You are here. You are loved and just relax, right? If you can be less hard on yourself. Oh my God. Oh my God. You're doing great.

Ann: (44:27)
Yes. You almost made me. I felt like it was an exercise. I almost literally close eyes and I'm like, wait a minute. I need to like continue because suddenly your voice got like, you inspired me. I was like, I need that as well. So thank you for that.

Claire: (44:39)
No, I said it cause I needed it. I'm freaking out. I'm totally freaking out. My internet didn't work 10 minutes ago. So, and also naps. If y'all need to close your eyes for five minutes, please let's do it.


Ann: (44:50)

Thank you so much, Claire. Wow. Okay. Kiara.

Kiara: (44:55)

I would say, get rid of any and all limitations that you may have for yourself mentally. Like you can do anything that you set your mind to. You can manifest anything in your life that you believe is possible for yourself, so just any stigma, any blockage, anything, get rid of it. This is the year, for me it's a very special year cause it's a year of manifestation. I believe that everything is in abundance this year. We went through a lot last year, we're still obviously going through a lot with the pandemic, but the more you can shift your mind to believing that you're truly invincible, and that nothing is impossible, I think you'll be in a great place. So go after it. Get whatever you deserve. 

Jamela: (45:35)

Yeah I was gonna say exactly what Kiara said. Just you know, changing your can'ts to I can. Like, you can. Just reframing your mindset. Rome wasn't built in a day. Whether it's one dollar at a time or one share at a time, educating yourself on one subject at a time. You can and you will. 

Ann: (45:55)

Great. Thank you so much ladies, like this was just great. For me it was just a great hour even just out of the day, just to connect. I love all of your perspectives that you shared. And they're all such different backgrounds. A room full of rockstars. Amazing.